IMAP fetch mail problem

gestione sistemi · Post by **gestione sistemi** » 05 May 2010, 12:14

Hi,
i've a strange problem fetching email via IMAP.

I'm using the latest OTRS version for Windows and i've many queues that i need manage.
Each queue fetcha e-mail via imap from a specified mailbox.
The problem is that when i fetch email, all the emails has been deleted from the mailbox.

I was thinking about the IMAP protocoll that LEAVE all the messages on your mailbox.

Can i change some configuration? Where?
Thank you very much and sorry for my English.

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 05 May 2010, 12:33

That is the correct beahavior of OTRS. There is no Config Setting for changing this...

serviceman · Post by **serviceman** » 01 Sep 2010, 10:55

jojo,
it isn't the right behaviour, simply is the otrs behaviour!
IMAP has to leave the messages into the mailbox and not delete them, one of the feature of IMAP protocol is concurrency.
The POP protocol have to delete the messages...
I have found how to modify the IMAP.pm module to leave the messages into the mailbox but every time the message is fetched, then every time a ticket is created.

I, and hope like "gestione sistemi", would like IMAP fetches the messages and leaves them into the mailbox like read, so other may read the email and the ticket was not created every fetch. Is there something about?

Sorry for my poor english!

Pier

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 01 Sep 2010, 12:55

why you should leave messages on the mailserver after fetching to otrs?

sixfortysix · Post by **sixfortysix** » 09 Sep 2010, 21:25

jojo wrote:why you should leave messages on the mailserver after fetching to otrs?

My thoughts are archiving... With cloud based services such as gmail, you gain a lot of space to store data... Just another method of CYA.

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 09 Sep 2010, 21:57

well, why you should archive it? The data ist stored in your OTRS....

Post by **crythias** » 10 Sep 2010, 12:39

If you want to archive it, you can:

Make your otrs email address a distribution list/alias and send to both your archive box and your otrs fetch box.
Use a spam preprocessor/filter such as assp which forwards ham to another box
Use a journaling account in Exchange and have that recorded by something like MailArchiva
In Exchange, Active Directory Users and Computers, add a second recipient inbox, and add that to the original OTRS user box as a destination, and check the checkbox for also deliver to this recipient.
In linux, if you can have a .forward added to the account, make it say something like:
Code: Select all
```
\otrsusername
email@copytodomain.mydom
```

Use procmail instead of IMAP and use this:

Code: Select all

:0c
* ! ^X-Loop: email@copytodomain\.mydom
! email@copytodomain.mydom

Mail is up to you to ensure proper delivery. I'm providing examples as a convenience, but you should test things out on your side with non-critical email accounts before applying them to OTRS.

serviceman · Post by **serviceman** » 21 Sep 2010, 14:57

...but, the question is: why OTRS, using IMAP, have to remove email from mail server?
IMAP standard behaviour means to share the mailbox with other users...
If I would like to download the messages I'll use POP!
Why OTRS have not respect the standards?

Post by **crythias** » 21 Sep 2010, 15:02

IMAP allows you to delete messages. This is not outside the boundaries of IMAP. You can POP without delete, too.

serviceman · Post by **serviceman** » 21 Sep 2010, 15:17

hi crythias,
it's right that a protocol or another may permit but, in standard mode, imap has not to delete messages.
there is a .pl file to configure the behaviour and i modified it to not delete mails but the ticket was created every time.
could be necessary that otrs creates tickets just only on mails unread, do you know if it's possible?

Post by **crythias** » 21 Sep 2010, 15:22

If you don't want this behavior, don't use OTRS on this email account. Make a dedicated account that you send tickets to when you want it to make tickets.

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 21 Sep 2010, 15:36

OTRS is designed to fetch all mails from each given postbox. The used protocol is just the transport...

havexz · Post by **havexz** » 29 Nov 2010, 09:08

I am new user and just installed it today and the first thing i noticed, while i am evaluating, is that IMAP issue. I just google straight forward so that i have a soln to the problem. I really want my email account to stay intact.

One good reason is, it adhere to IMAP standards. I didnt get the need of deleting. I evaluated other tools like Bugzilla and Redmine both can create tickets from mail and use IMAP and none deletes the mails. They just made it read.

Second reason is, you can access the mails directly using email and respond back if necessary (say some day your OTRS server is down). It always good to have a bit of redundancy and specifically when you can have it easily without much over head.

Third reason is, if tomorrow you have to migerate to some other tool you can do it easily.

Thanks
Havexz

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 29 Nov 2010, 09:27

well as said, IMAP is just the Transport Protocol used as there is no need to have a backup of the mails

Post by **crythias** » 29 Nov 2010, 15:00

@havexz Then forward a *copy* of all inbound mail to an email address that you *don't* care about that OTRS uses. You get all the benefits that you want.

havexz · Post by **havexz** » 04 Dec 2010, 05:33

Hi

First of all I like to thank for such a useful tool (which i missed in my last post).

Another use case for not deleting mail is, say i have to use two tools but same mail. Example OTRS for customer tickets (as thats its strength) and also say Redmine to open bugs/track feature requests (thats where Redmine stands out). These two tools can co-exist using the same mail if the emails are not getting deleted. We can use two email ids but then one cannot benefit from the conversations that OTRS is doing with the customer.

BTW I love to contribute by coding if we agree upon that this is a useful feature.

@jojo
One more thing, there is always need for backup. If the i download all mails, i loose the cloud facilities and i have to do work around as also mentioned by @crythias.

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 04 Dec 2010, 11:27

having two Tools working on the same box won't ork either. One tool will allways get half of the communication done in the other tool.

For Backup reasons you should backup the OTRS Database, as it contains outgoing communication and internal communication which you won't find in the mailbox

havexz · Post by **havexz** » 09 Dec 2010, 04:47

The two tools can work together as OTRS is going to maintain the conversation and other tool is just for creating the feature request/bug/fix as-n-when the first mail comes. Both can co-exist.

The basic crux is that it gives users more options, they can use other tool or they can reply back directly from mail account. All conversations are available online also as they are in the OTRS system.

All this gives users flexibility.

Let me put the question other way round what are the concerns if we dont delete the mail from the IMAP account?

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 09 Dec 2010, 06:51

If users will reply with their mailclient this will also destroy data integrety in OTRS.

OTRS will allways fetch all mails in the imap folder, so you'll have duplicates.

havexz · Post by **havexz** » 13 Dec 2010, 10:32

I think OTRS should only fetch once it doesnt have locally stored, the way IMAP works. It just syncs itself with server. If there is something new (read /unread) it will download it and process it.

Regarding the integrity if someone replies using mail-client, well I dont know how it will impact as I dont know the internals of OTRS but even then its a rare option which one will use in case OTRS got corrupted or for some reason not accessible to reply important mails.

The idea is one can easily fall back to some other means if the mails are there. If the mails are not there and OTRS is also not working, there is no fallback.

Post by **crythias** » 13 Dec 2010, 15:39

This isn't going to happen in OTRS. There are out-of-band workarounds available, but OTRS is an endpoint. In order to keep an accurate history of tickets, for forensic purposes, ALL traffic regarding a ticket must go through OTRS. Any ability for a human to interact with OTRS's ticket source (inbox) is detrimental to the integrity of tracking the ticket. If you don't trust OTRS to do what it's supposed to do, don't use it, or use a workaround.

If OTRS is not working, these are the most likely possible ways of not working:
1) OTRS doesn't retrieve tickets. This is not a problem, because you have the opportunity to do what you want -- alternatively answer the tickets from the inbox.
2) OTRS doesn't process the downloaded tickets. OTRS drops tickets it can't handle into its own spool folder. If you're going to run out of space for this, that may be a problem, but with storage options, it should be preplanned. Nonetheless, OTRS will process the spool folder by cron.
3) OTRS handles tickets in a way you don't want it to handle. Practically all options for handling a ticket can be changed in the software.
4) You want to change ticketing systems. Multiple ways of handling incoming tickets (answering them outside of OTRS) only adds to the difficulty to changing ticketing systems.

No human should ever touch the OTRS inbox.

Mothra · Post by **Mothra** » 13 Dec 2010, 18:21

crythias wrote:
No human should ever touch the OTRS inbox.

Absolutely. This should have been the first and only response to this thread, and should also be in large, bold, capital letters at the very start of the Admin Manual (before the installation instructions).

havexz · Post by **havexz** » 18 Dec 2010, 23:43

First of all thanks to all for taking the time out and responding.

I understand that there are work arounds that we can use.I agree that user should not mess around with mail box which is being used by OTRS. I would love to contribute but since we cannot agree upon its need, we can close it.

BTW just for reference, tools like Bugzilla, Redmine etc. use IMAP and dont delete mail and work fine. If you ever get a chance to look at them. Just a thought, if someone wants to migrate to some other tool how can one migrate if there are no mails in the mail box?

I am really thankful for creating such a good tool.

Thanks
havexz

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 19 Dec 2010, 01:36

havexz wrote:Just a thought, if someone wants to migrate to some other tool how can one migrate if there are no mails in the mail box?

Typically there is no need for this. A lot of information is stored not in the mails which were sent to the mailbox, like outbound mails and notes. So a migration needs also to cover this.

havexz · Post by **havexz** » 21 Dec 2010, 03:49

Does currently OTRS supports any way to export data so that user can migrate?

Post by **crythias** » 21 Dec 2010, 04:06

Does currently OTRS supports any way to export data so that user can migrate?

mysqldump.

gravitas41 · Post by **gravitas41** » 28 Dec 2010, 14:39

Hi

I am sure there are loads of good reasons for deleting IMAP mail from the server, but this has taken the shine off of my evaluation!!

I know, I know, I should probably have read the manual in detail first....

Can anybody help me to understand if there is a way of exporting the emails back out from OTRS to my IMAP account?

Thanks in advance fro any help you can offer!

HervE · Post by **HervE** » 04 Jan 2011, 17:55

If you are using Microsoft Outlook 2007 you can use menu Tools / Recover deleted elements... or so on your Inbox.
And I suggest during evaluation/test phase of OTRS to do a copy of your Inbox (for instance Inbox1) to avoid mail loss. That's what I did.
If it can help...

HervE

correomm · Post by **correomm** » 09 Jul 2011, 02:02

Is very necesary that OTRS doesn't delete the messages from the email server.

Do you can coding that option? In order that the administrator can choose if
delete o keep the messages in the email server.

Is very important the flexibility and customization in the software.

Thanks in advance

jojo · Post by **jojo** » 09 Jul 2011, 07:18

As already written OTRS will fetch (and has to fetch) all messages from the mailboxes. There is no need to keep them on the mailserver!

SilentGreen · Post by **SilentGreen** » 10 May 2012, 13:08

Hey all

First i have to say sorrycoming back to this topic, but i see it like gestione and havexz.

For our company i was looking for a toll like OTRS, and i was suprised how good it is. Congrats to all developers for this.
But also for us deleting fetched messages is a kind of a problem.

I understand all resons why OTRS is working this way, and - normally - there is no need for NOT deleting the messages,
The thread is very interesting, but while reading this i was just wondering why this new idea, of implementing an option to change this behavior, should not be implemented.
This would give OTRS more flexibility.
The reason why some users don't want to have fetched messages deleted or if there is no need not deleting the messages should be irrelevant. Especially to enhance such a good tool.

Just a thought.

Greets
SilentGreen

Post by **crythias** » 10 May 2012, 13:50

And I'm going to re-iterate options that have nothing to do with OTRS. All of them are easy to implement. If you want a copy, use a distribution list or the forward copy option of the mailbox.

Summary:
1) Change the email address to a distribution list
2) forward a copy to a human inbox at the mail server. Have OTRS grab either the primary or secondary.
3) Advanced option: Fetch from IMAP not inbox. viewtopic.php?f=62&t=8180&p=32270

maliagros · Post by **maliagros** » 31 Oct 2012, 14:44

Hello.

I have a solution for the problem and works 100% (with my company gmail based/served mail account & my personal hotmail account too)
OTRS takes the e-mails from some speciphic folder on the e-mail account. That is by defalult the INBOX.
First you have to create a new folder on your e-mail account (or label for gmail users).
Then create a filter to copy the tickets you want to that folder.
With this you have the e-mail on your inbox and the OTRS take them from the other folder (and then delete them).
If you want to manualy import some mails to OTRS, just copy them in to that folder and OTRS will take them on the next synchronization.

(P.S.: Forgive me for my English)

hourlyadmin · Post by **hourlyadmin** » 28 Jan 2017, 00:11

I wish I would have known about this *feature* before setting up the IMAP connection thinking it would not delete all my email. I am very frustrated with this *feature* and luckily only lost 5 emails.

Znuny Open Source Ticketsystem

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